*Menu
Search
Submit
Mountain Home News

UPDATE - Church sues city over 'religious freedom'

Thursday, June 9, 2011
No-Limits Christian Ministries is located in the former Salvation Army building across from Albertson's.

A local ministry filed a lawsuit in the U.S. District Court of Idaho on May 31 following a dispute with city officials over converting a downtown building into a church complex.

During a special council meeting Monday night to respond to the lawsuit, the city authorized a consent order to be sent to the court that would functionally allow No Limits Ministry to use the facility as a church.

U.S. District Judge Edward J. Lodge entered the agreed order Tuesday that accomplishes the church's primary objective in filing the suit and allows worship in the former Salvation Army building at 535 North Main Street.

"We are grateful by the city's council's prompt and proper action to correct the injustice," said Pastor Clark Williams in a prepared statement released by the public relations firm of the legal team representing the church. "We are thankful to God that we are now allowed to worship."

The Malcom-Baker law firm in Chicago filed the complaint on behalf of the No Limits Christian Ministries, which is suing the city over alleged First and Fourteenth Amendment issues of religious freedom and due process of law violations.

It invokes a little-known law passed by Congress in 2000 that prevents requiring a government from imposing land use (zoning) regulations that "treats a religous assembly or institution on less than equal terms with a nonreligious assembly or institution" -- specifically, requiring all churches in the city to have a conditional use permit for approval while allowing businesses or other organizations in some zones to avoid that requirement.

Although the original documents provided the city indicated the church was seeking $75 million in real and compensatory damages, that was a typographical error. The church is seeking approximately $75,000 in damages, including an estimated $10,000 in real damages related to city fee requirements it contends are illegal and loss of revenue by not being able to use its new building.

For the full story, pick up a copy of the Mountain Home News or click on this link to subscribe to the newspaper's online edition.

Comments
View 45 comments
Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. Please note that those who post comments on this website may do so using a screen name, which may or may not reflect a website user's actual name. Readers should be careful not to assign comments to real people who may have names similar to screen names. Refrain from obscenity in your comments, and to keep discussions civil, don't say anything in a way your grandmother would be ashamed to read.
  • *

    How is a toilet and parking spaces a religious issue? This church is making Jimmy Swaggart look like a saint. We need businesses downtown not churches. They are just greedy crooks and coming from Chicago is no surprise they couldn't even hire a local lawyer to keep business in Idaho let alone Mountain Home. We need to run them out of town.

    -- Posted by Trouble2011 on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 10:58 AM

  • Well, they only want $75 million, so is that because they want to build'em one of those fancy Swaggart churches with the money they get from us? Or, oh, I get it, they want a new spankin' car for all their congregation, or, oh, maybe a vacation or two, or three! And, they are playing the race card too, so don't forget about that!

    -- Posted by ltngblt on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 11:17 AM
  • *

    Not sure how accurate this is. But the MHN has a page with 37 churches listed in Mountain Home (I didn't count the ones in surrounding area). No-Limits isn't on there, so add one more. Does a town of roughly 12K need that many churches?

    http://www.mountainhomenews.com/churches/

    -- Posted by VicVega on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 12:02 PM

  • PHI 4:13 - I can do all things through Christ that strengthens us.

    -- Posted by njacks on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 1:23 PM

  • Indeed, as long as these things are being done to glorify God and not someone's bank account.

    -- Posted by CuriousParents on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 1:28 PM

  • they knew full well that they couldnt get parking and would have a problem doing so with that lot....theres no room for it.

    -- Posted by county_aware on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 1:33 PM

  • Talk about following the money trail, take a look at theses links and the law firms hired by the church, sounds more like a Public Relations ploy that is gonna backfire on them!

    http://www.scribd.com/tciesielka

    http://www.tcpr.net/clients.php

    http://www.prforlaughs.com/

    http://www.thehealingofjabez.com/about-author/

    I especially like the last one: So, building on top of a septic tank that is leaking into the city water supply is gonna be a positive, soul redeeming, inspirational spreading of the gospel. Just don't smell right!

    -- Posted by ltngblt on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 2:27 PM

  • And when will the "Race" card come into play....because it will.

    -- Posted by mhg4316 on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 3:33 PM

  • ltngblt:

    AMEN!!

    -- Posted by Fairytaleforme on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 4:36 PM

  • This is hilarious that for the longest time i have seen that business go up and down. Why dont they just tear down the building it would save on the crap that people want to put there. I remember when many restaraunts wanted that spot.

    -- Posted by jrbrkby1989 on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 7:21 PM

  • I think most of the people who posted here should ck the facts of the suit before making some of the comments they made........and some of the comments raise and issue that has not come into play,or should it????????????

    -- Posted by lamont on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 7:30 PM
  • *

    38 churches... Lord have mercy... nothing like 38 tax free congregations... while the rest of us get blasted time and time again for "more" taxes by the city and county.... Lord have mercy...

    -- Posted by scoutin on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 8:39 PM

  • Well, Lamont, here is some language right out of the filed Complaint: Page 3, Para 6:

    "NLCM, now a congregation of about 60-70 people, is predominately African-American and includes many military families living in and around Mountain Home and the United States Air Force base located there." And I still have not taken the time to read the 90 or so pages of Affidavits that they have filed, but I bet you they are full of stuff that is not accurate, just based on the representations we see in the Complaint.

    -- Posted by ltngblt on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 7:36 AM

  • "The law was designed to protect new churches and religious organizations, especially those made up of minority groups, the church noted in its lawsuit. The No Limits Christian Ministries congregation is made up of about 65 people who are predominantly African-American, according to the lawsuit. Many of the congregants are military personnel."

    http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/122979823.html

    The law that they are using was made for minority groups in particular.

    -- Posted by CuriousParents on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 8:37 AM
  • *

    This isn't the first time the issue of parking has come up in regards to a church. All you have to do is look at what the city did to the Catholic Church. They basically extorted $46,000 from the church to allow the new building. Guess this church has a better idea rather than pay a bribe!

    And for all you out there that claim you need new businesses and not new churches shoudl got to a council meeting and see WHY there are so few businesses. The council and the mayor do more to drive business out than they do to bring it in.

    -- Posted by mhbouncer on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 12:57 PM
  • *

    mhbouncer: You said "The council and the mayor do more to drive business out than they do to bring it in."

    Interesting statement! I've been to a few meeting and haven't seen this. Any chance you can expand on your view as to how the Mayor and Council drive businesses out of town.

    It's not that I don't believe you. It just seems the city doesn't restrict or regulate most types of businesses with licenses or any type of approval process. Zoning laws seem to be the biggest sticking point.

    Hope to hear from you mhbouncer.

    -- Posted by bondyweb on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 2:54 PM

  • I don't see that the City extorted any money from the Catholic Church, and it gets down to the basics: Wipe out a business district of about 12 retail stores, one's that pay taxes, knock it down for a building and parking lot that does not pay taxes, and we, the citizens, get left holding the bag! I consider the $46K to be akin to the PILT funds that get paid to the County, since the Base is not required to pay property taxes. I say let's have all the churches voluntarily contribute to a PILT program (Payment In Lieu of Taxes).

    -- Posted by ltngblt on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 3:22 PM

  • LTNGBLT......SO WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE DISPARAGING ENUENDOS AS POSTED HERE ???????IF THEY SITED THE LAW THAT IS THAT....THEY HAVE THERE OPINION OF WHAT HAPPENED HERE AND THE COURTS WILL SORT IT OUT.....The inuendos posted here are a fact of there own,I did not see those kind of inuendos posted about CAVALRY did you?????

    If you dont like the LAW take that up with your elected officials, if it is on the books i would assume you would use it if you could.

    That building just like several others have sat EMPTY for YEARS,i would rather see them USED than sitting there a BLIGHT on the community.Wether another church is needed is up to the people who feel it is.I didnt hear to many chuches when there was one built on haskett st or is there something different about that???????? or is it because they call it there BUSINESS office.

    Dont we have bigger fish to fry?????? or do you just need to point fingers at someone.

    CANTJUSTWATCH....GO TO THE FORD DEALER LIST THE OPTIONS IN A CADDY AND ASK THEM HOW MUCH IT WILL COST TO HAVE THEM ADDED.tHEN GO TO THE CADDY DEALER, YOU WILL FIND THOSE OPTIONS ARE STANDARD,THE COST OF YOUR FORD WILL BE THE SAME AS A CADDY.SO WHY NOT BUY THEM ALREADY IN THE CAR.YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THINGS YOU DONT CK OUT.ALSO CK OUT THE WARRANTY AND THE SERVICE PACKAGE........BASICALLY YOU GET MORE BANG FOR YOUR BUCK ....YOU OUGHT TO TRY IT THEN YOU WONT HAVE TO BE .......LETS JUST SAY .....JEALOUSE.

    TROUBLE.......WHAT LAWYER WHO LIVES HERE IN A SMALL TOWN IS GOING TO TAKE A CASE AGAINST THE TOWN /????????? id like to know. wHEN I HAD A PROBLEM I HAD TO GO OUT OF TOWN.I went to every lawyer in town and they all respectfully declined all for the same reason.....THEY HAD TO LIVE HERE.

    also why would you trust a lawyer in town when you have already got the run around from the town.

    Why would you want these people to do something you would not do yourself.????????USUALLY i hear about the CONSTITUION why not now.FREEDOM of religion......but we are talking about RUN THEM OUT OF TOWN.....HMMMMMmmmmm!!!!!!!! SAME PEOPLE THAT WEAR UNIFORMS TO KEEP YOU SAFE TO BE ABLE TO SAY THAT.....WHATS NEXT ????????

    -- Posted by lamont on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 4:07 PM
  • *

    Anyone find it ironic that all the minutes from past City Council meetings are posted except for the 9 May meeting where this issue was discussed? I looked and looked on the CIty website but could not find them. I have to wonder why?

    -- Posted by B Mullen on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 5:08 PM
  • *

    Old Guy: Seems like the City website is always 3-5 weeks behind when posting the meeting minutes. I went to that council meeting. It was quite interesting and a good learning experience. You can read my take on this lawsuit at http://goo.gl/5ZM1K

    -- Posted by bondyweb on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 5:51 PM
  • *

    Bondyweb,

    Still find it ironic that there are minutes from 4-25-11 then the next one is from 16 May and 23 May 2011. Wonder why 9 May minutes are not available to us.

    -- Posted by B Mullen on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 6:40 PM
  • *

    Lamont, when I say local I mean IDAHO maybe Boise or Twin if not Mountain Home. As for your assessment that all the members of the church (term used very liberally) being active duty military I question that. I spent over 22 years in the military and was in Desert Storm, Afghanistan, and Iraq for this latest quest. I really find it offensive and disrespectful for you to throw the flag around like you do. Most of us fought for the USA and we probably understand the sacrifices just as well if not better than you. You usually through the military card as much as some people do the race card when you have no idea who you're talking too. The church new the parking and toilet situation when they moved there and new it wasn't going to be fixed with prayers alone. If people hate this town so much why do they stay here? If they are military they are only here for a short time and if not then why not come up with a better solution than use an out of state lawyer to sue the citizens of Mountain Home.

    -- Posted by Trouble2011 on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 6:59 PM

  • Just a little lesson.

    *Through and throw are two totally different words.

    *To and too are two totally different words.

    *Knew and now are two totally different words.

    Lesson completed.

    Don't ya just hate those Mtn. Home teachers that don't teach this basic stuff? Sheesh, we all know the students pay full attention in class.

    -- Posted by jdcb on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 8:19 PM

  • Trouble2011: I wish I could back you up with the statement "WE NEED BUSINESSES DOWNTOWN NOT CHURCHES". Unfortunatly, the few times I have visited DOWNTOWN MOUNTAIN HOME, I have experienced the worst customer service ever! A Little Slice of Heaven, Sew & Sew and the Youth Ranch will continue to leave a bad taste in my mouth. All "promises" made by these downtown business were not only broken but stepped on and then set on fire! I truely believe the only good "businesses" located within the town of Mountain Home are churches (regardless of race or religion). I will continue to keep you in my prayers as only Satan himself could make you type "WE NEED TO RUN THEM OUT OF TOWN". I challenge you to read the Gospel. May GOD bless you!

    Cantjustwatch: Is it safe to say you are also against businesses such as Mary Kay and Scentsy? Just asking because I constantly see members of these businesses "masquerading" around, only I thought it was called advertising. I will continue to keep you in my prayers. May GOD bless you!

    ViceVega: "Does a town of roughly 12K need that many churches?" I say yes but, I am just one person. If there are already 37 churches (that you can count) in the town of Mountain Home, then there are 37 churches for a reason. The LORD above saw it fit for that many churches to be in one place. I can only pray more churches (regardless of religion or race) rise up in this town and allow others to hear and spread the word of the Gospel. I will continue to keep you in my prayers. May GOD bless you!

    NJaks: Well said! May GOD continue to bless you!

    County_aware, mhg4316, Fairytaleforme, scoutin: I will continue to keep you in my prayers. May GOD bless you!

    Jdcb: Great lesson! May GOD continue to bless you!

    Lamont: "If you dont like the LAW take that up with your elected officials, if it is on the books i would assume you would use it if you could." and "Why would you want these people to do something you would not do yourself.????????USUALLY i hear about the CONSTITUION why not now.FREEDOM of religion......but we are talking about RUN THEM OUT OF TOWN.....HMMMMMmmmmm!!!!!!!! SAME PEOPLE THAT WEAR UNIFORMS TO KEEP YOU SAFE TO BE ABLE TO SAY THAT.....WHATS NEXT ????????" and "That building just like several others have sat EMPTY for YEARS,i would rather see them USED than sitting there a BLIGHT on the community."--Well said!! May GOD continue to bless you!

    Bottom line. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ. We should be helping not hendering one another regardless of religion or race. I challenge not only Trouble2011 to read the Gospel, but everyone reading this post. Whether

    No Limits Christian Ministries wins or not, I know the LORD will continue to bless them. Their services will continue to be held and people will continue to attend.

    I leave the town of Mountain Home with this...

    Be joyful always, pray continually, give thanks in all circmstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus--1 Thessalonians 5:16-18.

    -- Posted by CraziLuv4HIM on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 9:10 PM

  • While I don't agree with this church filing legal action (the Bible is very clear on this issue) I have attended city council meetings and have found one member of the city council to be against any church wanting to locate in the downtown core. I say "downtown core" with a grain of salt as MH is so small. I also find the parking issue laughable, heaven forbid people park at El Rancho or Stardust Plaza and walk the two blocks to their place of worship. I could understand the opposition to a church locating downtown due to the possible loss of a tax paying business if these very buildings weren't sitting empty year after year after year. At least these churches are renovating these buildings which one day may be turned back to the private sector as the congregations outgrow the buildings and sell them.

    -- Posted by swmom on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 9:39 PM

  • CANTJUSTWATCH.......WHAT RACE CARD???????I stated if you go back and read it......that the LAW. IF THE law in its wisdom set aside I DID NOT.And just for you..... I dont care what colour you are if you start going after a group because of there race or colour i will say it.I DONT LIKE BLACK RACIST ANYMORE THAN WHITE ONES SO WHATS YOUR PROBLEM.YES I WENT AFTER THE CADDY GARBAGE BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT IT IS AND YOU KNOW IT.....DID YOU CK OUT WHAT I SAID ABOUT COST??????i bet not because that is to much like whats real.

    Trouble......i never said all the members were military ...... you did not me.How do you know that they knew about the toilet situation when they moved in there????????????How do you know that the parking situation was known, were you at the council meetings???????????? How do you know that the town even knew about the toilet situation?........How do you know iT did not come into play after the fact?????How do you know that the parking hasnt been taken care of?????I know a lot more than you do on this issue.AND I DONT ATTEND THIS CHURCH.

    NOW AS FOR THE FLAG IT IS MY FLAG AND I WILL DO AS I WISH....I PAYED FOR IT WITH MY 28YRS AND MY BLOOD.did SOMEONE SAY THEY HATED THE TOWN????????? WHO?????????I go back a long time in this town I CHOSE THIS town to live in. Dont tell me what happens here i will be here 40yrs next yr and there have been changes for the good,but dont think this town is without its faults it is not.What would make you think you understand patriotism ANY better than me.YOU find it offensive and disrespectfull,i find a lot of things that way but that doesnt bother you does it.? i FIND THE ENUENDOS AND INSULT's HERE DIRESPCTFULL AND OFFENSIVE,DO YOU????????IF YOU THINK I DEFEND BLINDLY YOU HAVNT PAID ATTENTION OR YOU HAVE INTERPRETED AS YOU SEE FIT.I HAVNT SEEN YOU CONDEMN ONE INUENDO ANYWHERE,WHY??????? ARE THEY OK WITH YOU?????????????????

    CJW......THE MAN YOU ARE REFERRING TO.....BRAZELL HAD LEFT THE MINISTRY WHEN HE RETURNED HERE AND FOOLISHLY SET UP THE MASSAGE PARLOR FOR HIS SPOUSE.SHE UNKNOWLINGLY TO HIM WAS WANTED BY THE FBI FOR SEVERAL CRIMES TO INCLUDE BEING HERE ILLEGALY. MR BRAZZELL WAS ABLE TO PROVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF HER PAST AND RECENT CRIMES . SO AGAIN YOU MADE AND ACCUSATION WITHOUT THE TRUTHFULL FACTS AND I MENTIONED HIS NAME BECAUSE IT IS A MATTER OF PUBLIC RECORD.HE ALSO APOLOGIZED PUBLICLY THROUGH OUR NEWS PAPER TO THE TOWN.ALSO FOR YOUR INFO HE WAS A MILITARY RETIRE. WOULD I HAVE DEFENDED HIM.I WOULD HAVE WAITED TO FIND OUT THE FACTS.I DIDNT DEFEND BUT DID CONDEMN HIS REASON FOR LEAVING THE MINISTRY AND THAT IS BETWEEN HIM AND HIS GOD.

    If YOU ARE ANGRY ABOUT THE LAW SUIT ASK YOUR CITY COUNCIL WHAT HAPPENED THAT IT CAME ABOUT.THE CHURCH HAS MADE A MAJOR INVESTMENT IN THE BUILDING.After all the work and investment i think you would be just a little teed off if you were told one thing at one time and then something else at another.Think about this, there are places in this town that have been built before we had all the rules we have now.Some people are leasing ,renting and selling places that even they dont know all the specifics of a said property.There has been a lot of mistakes made on this whole deal, but you dont tell people who have invested thousands to just go and rent somwhere else that doesnt get it.SO GO TALK TO THE CITY COUNCIL OR READ THE MINUTES OF THE MEETINGS BEFORE YOU PASS JUDGEMENT.WE ARE ALWAYS CITING THE LAW HOW ABOUT LETTING THIS PLAY OUT IN COURT IF IT GETS THERE.

    -- Posted by lamont on Fri, Jun 3, 2011, at 2:21 AM
  • *

    Lamont, after this I'm done wasting my breath on you (notice not all caps as I don't even bother reading the capital rants) and yes I know about the situation, I know about the building, and I knew about the parking and toilet issue long before the church moved into that building. Why? Let's just say I looked at the building when I opened we where opening a buisness and the toilet and parking where the reason we choose a different location. It was brought up when I toured the building and if it wasn't for the church (love thy neighbor and file a lawsuit against them church) then they need to talk to the person that sold them the building not sue the citizens of Mountian Home. As for not defending the induendos and such I guess I fought for the freedom of speech and stand by it. I didn't like what you said and told you how I felt. We both had that right and I won't stop you from spouting your option even if I believe it to be wrong. We both have options and views. I believe in personal responsibility, working hard, defending your country, and knowing what you are getting into before you invest to much into a place with issues. I don't care how many churchs we have but they shouldn't complain and sue me becasue of thier bad investment (the building). They claim to be a church but act like a spoiled child.

    -- Posted by Trouble2011 on Fri, Jun 3, 2011, at 8:10 AM

  • CJW I DONT CARE WHAT YOU SAY BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE ALL THE FACTS AND YOU CONVENIENTLY MAKE UP SOME AS YOU GO ALONG.......new wife tells a tale.....she was a professional con artist he got duped ok.She was wanted in calif,for human trafficing,prostitution,money laundering and a host of other things before she knew him. Im sure it would never happen to you.You would have pulled a background ck im sure, if his apology and the rest was not good enough for you..... oh well...and for your info you cant keep track if you work in boise and commute but im sure you would have been able to.AFTER ALL YOU KNOW HOW THEY ARE.

    Trouble i am glad that you knew about it they didnt or they ignored which ever or maybe they didnt ck i dont know,they feel they have been discriminated against and there ethenicity is in the law suit ........soooooooo.........happens all the time,Let the court figure it out or is that to much to ask????????OR ARE YOU AFRAID THE COURT MIGHT NOT RULE TO YOUR LIKING. ??????? NOW REMEMBER THIS IS IDAHO THE MOST RIGHT WING STATE IN THE UNION AND PROUD OF IT.

    SO long story short, it is ok with you when people ARE racially stereotype,and THE BRUNT OF disparaging remarks So if i do it you will defend my freedom of speech right ???????

    wHAT does working hard,personal responsibilty and defending the country have to do with this????? SO DO I..... are you trying to say something here because i dont get it,the people in that church believe the same,and that is what they do daily.I dont think anyone in that church set the town up for a law suit nor do i belive that the town acted in bad faith.I do believe some people didnt talk to each other.I DO BELIEVE THAT THIS COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED.For some reason if a minority does what a another would do in the same cercumstance they are acting like a spoiled child,no there not, they went were they should go.THE COURTS,that is what they are for.Like i said you wouldnt use a local lawyer so why should they????????? what's different?MAYBE THE ATTITUDE DISPLAYED HERE IS THE SAME DISPLAYED BY THE CITY COUNCIL AND THAT IS HOW WE GOT HERE??????????food for thought.....i will say this if you dont ask the right questions nobody gives you the right answers,this would not have happened to me i ask a lot of questions .

    -- Posted by lamont on Fri, Jun 3, 2011, at 11:00 AM

  • I dont want to bicker with anyone but for the record.... i was at the city council meeting and The city did not even know that there was a septic tank hooked to the building. If they didnt know then im sure no one else knew that there would have been an issue. It wasnt even brought up until an little old lady said something about it which confused the city and caused all this ruckus. now the city told No Limits that if the tank was big enough then it would be sufficient. When No Limits went back and told them the schematics and that bowmans said it was good for 4 years.... The city said thats not good enough..They need to hook up to city lines. those are the FACTS.. I was there.

    -- Posted by Mtnhomian on Fri, Jun 3, 2011, at 1:01 PM
  • *

    Lamont,

    They brought up the race issue not the citizens of Mountain Home. But for fact anyone that wanted to put something as large as a church in that building would be told NO. Race has nothing to do with it. Putting the toilet issue aside we still have the problem of parking. They can' park and take up the Albertsons parking lot they don't own it, it is for the Albertsons customers. Stardust plaza is for the businesses of Stardust plaza (provided they get some). The closest crosswalk is down on the corner by Taco Johns. There are three lanes going through there and someone will get hurt trying to dart across the road (jay walking), it will be just a matter of time.

    As for the court issue, it is their right to hire a lawyer and talk the citizens of Mountain Home to court; they can even play the race card even though this whole thing has nothing to do with race. The problems I have are they are not very Christian like suing. It will cost the taxpayers a lot of money even if and or when we win. I hope you would agree that if this so called church loses they should have to pay all court costs to include the lawyers hired by the taxpayers to defend ourselves.

    And Lamont thank you for finding your cap locks key. It is much easier to read and understand what you're saying.

    -- Posted by Trouble2011 on Fri, Jun 3, 2011, at 1:44 PM
  • *

    Mtnhomain,

    I don't think the city every looked into purchasing, renting or leasing that building. That being said, I don't expect them to know everything about every building in town especially with the age of some of the buildings. I on the other hand asked questions when I was looking for a building to lease for a business. I asked about parking, I asked about the bathroom situation. Anyone wonder why there were no PUBLIC restrooms when it was the Salvation Army? I asked. If the church didn't ask then it is their fault. If the selling agent lied to them then their beef is with them. But either way why should the tax payers have to flip the bill for someone's (the churches) poor planning or bad decisions. They call themselves a church and Christians but they are not acting like Christians or good neighbors.

    -- Posted by Trouble2011 on Fri, Jun 3, 2011, at 1:53 PM

  • So were you at the city council meeting when the sewer issue was discussed. Lamont? I was. And I remember the city not knowing anything about it. A was also at the meeting when the city said for them to hook up to the sewer and meet all demands. The church agreed to that then on the next meeting the church said they had the money funded to start the project. Our great city council decided to say. There was no gaurentee that they would let them in the building anyway but if they went and rented from the stardust plaza where there is no bathroom might I add..... Then the city would allow that. I also got to go to one service last week at the current buildig that they are holding it in, the roof is literally falling in on them. That was mentioned at a city council meeting but the city doesn't seem to care about that. Me personally I will never go back to that building due to the safety of my family And kids.

    -- Posted by Mtnhomian on Fri, Jun 3, 2011, at 3:45 PM

  • The comment was directed to Trouble2011 not lamont.

    -- Posted by Mtnhomian on Fri, Jun 3, 2011, at 4:05 PM

  • NO i was not at the meeting.MTN HOMIAN I think you just told us why we are were we are. Thankyou.

    SO now the courts get to sort out what was said and it's intent .Isnt that the way it works?we can have all the heart burn we want about a CHURCH sueing tell me the alternative based on mtn homian's revelations.This still doesnt have to go there I WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE IT GO THERE.But it requires some comittment from both party's.

    There were some things brought up here that had nothing to do with this issue that didnt need to be touched.For the sake of argument racial steriotyping will usually ring a bell,and i dont care who is doing it.Implying things and then saying i didnt do that is also very provoking.Pointing a finger at someone and assuming guilt without knowing the facts is also provoking.MR BRAZELL had absolutly nothing to do with this issue and to hold him up as some kind of example was in my opinion out in left field. To hold him up without facts was totally out of place.Some folks here have watched to much television and have a very distorted idea of what minoritys are about. WHAT you see on TV is not always the truth AND IF YOU COMMUNICATE AS IF IT IS....... THAT IS THE START OF THE PROBLEM......

    WE WORK HARD ,WE DONT WANT YOU TO GIVE US ANYTHING,WE HAVE THE SAME ASPERATIONS AS ANYONE ELSE AND WE GO ABOUT LIFE THE SAME WAY YOU DO.RAISING OUR CHILDREN,EDUCATING THEM WITH THE SAME HOPES OF BETTER LIFE.STOP AND THINK BEFORE YOU MAKE COMMENTS THAT YOU WOULD NOT LIKE MADE IN REFERNCE TO YOU OR YOURS........THE GOLDEN RULE REMEMBER??????????? SUGGESTION,,,,,,,,,,, if you dont know a minority family.......GET TO KNOW ONE........YOU MIGHT GET SURPRISED.........BUT I WOULD HOPE NOT.....I HOPE YOU FIND THEM TO BE .......JUST LIKE YOU,OR YOUR JUST LIKE THEM.......HAVE A GREAT DAY

    -- Posted by lamont on Fri, Jun 3, 2011, at 4:44 PM

  • I all can say is, you hear things like "Shifty 50," The founding fathers, monopolies, and people bringing business ideas to the city, but conveniently are refused. Why? Because Old money only fears one thing..."New Money." I don't think this church is about raising any more money, than any other church in town, which pretty much is for operating cost. What if those people had their "caddy's" (which I don't know why that's so big to you little people) before they were a congregation? What if they worked hard and achieved the American Dream, and provided comfort for their families before they were a church. Should they just go into ministry, and then sell everything. Then you'd say, "They sold everything because they a got dirty conscious" (just speculation).

    It pretty much boils down to this. This city could be just as big as Nampa/ Meridian; which is where everybody who wants to do anything, from here in Mountain Home goes anyway. You mean to tell me, that if someone wanted to put a Papa John's, Taco bell, Applebee's, or Waffle House, because they would be in competition with Dominoes/Pizza Hut, Taco John's, Applebee's (no where close to anything in Mountain Home) and Grinde's respectfully, that they'd be allowed. No! No genius needed there. There is nothing wrong with the businesses aforementioned, but you mean to tell me that if a Papa John's opened up, that they would not get service? Jobs would be created, and maybe some of the 392 homes for sale, would be sold (1)

    Competition is the basis of American life. If the "50 shifty" (ooh shiver me timbers) would instead of limiting this city to ensure their pockets are healthy, and would look to the future, how many more jobs would grow in mountain home.

    Mountain Home 2000/2010 Census numbers:

    2000yr 11,143 population - 2010yr 14,206 population increased by 3,063

    Nampa 2000yr 51,867pop- 2010yr 81,557 population increased by 29,690

    Meridian 2000yr 34,919pop. - 2010yr 75,092 population increased by 40,173 (2)

    I think it's safe to say that many people who now live in the larger areas have moved from smaller areas, with employment, accessibility, and shady practices as a reason. How many people Live in Boise and carpool to Mountain Home? They won't even give you the gas money and they move away, as does there healthy TAX money (as so mentioned several times) I'm sure you'll doubt this, but one thing that can't be doubted, if employment opportunities dry up, just like that Old shifty 50 Money, where is the town of Mountain home headed?

    1) http://www.homefinder.com/ID/Mountain_Home/

    2) http://search.census.gov/search?entqr=0&ud=1&output=xml_no_dtd&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8...

    -- Posted by Whitfield on Fri, Jun 3, 2011, at 5:23 PM

  • I have the answer

    Combine the Jr High and the High School that leaves an empty school. The church can lease the school out from the school district and everyone wins. The district gets money and the church gets a parking lot and toilets. lol !

    -- Posted by MsMarylin on Fri, Jun 3, 2011, at 5:48 PM

  • Why does Mtn Home folks debate a church suing the Town? Why does the town resist everything? Why do you have to deal with little issues? What is happeneing to the Mayfield projects? I think the answer is that Mtn Home oldtimers try to depend on the base, refuse to allow new stuff in, and they keep the little hick town atmosphere going. Not a bad thing for a few, but the town is being past over and when they finally reduce the base to near nothing, Mtn Home will crash. I loved that town, but with no good hopes of employment, I had to move. I look at the Mtn Home news like my hometown newpaper still, but I keep finding the same arguments and business as usual.

    -- Posted by loslaynes on Sat, Jun 4, 2011, at 4:18 PM
  • *

    In one breath the NLCM is saying that they have 65ish congregants, and they need the room to grow. In the next, when the City tells them what it will take in regards to adequate sewage and parking for their occupancy level of 290, the NLCM balks and says they only have 65 congregants and are losing more every day because of the impasse with the City.

    In my opinion, if you have a building that services X-number of patrons, for the safety and comfort of those patrons alone, you'd better be equipped to effectively and efficiently deal with X-number of people. Somewhere between 50 and 70 parking spaces makes sense for an occupancy level of 290. Anyone can drive by the building and see that there is barely enough room for the required handicapped parking spaces as it is.

    It's not Mountain Home's fault for the choice of location. Read the filing and make your own decision. I must say that I'm more in agreement with the City after reading it. Bondy has it posted.

    -- Posted by VicVega on Mon, Jun 6, 2011, at 1:51 PM

  • MR VEGA PLEASE READ MTN HOMIANS post on what was said by the council. the double talk is why there is a law suit........so please read it.

    -- Posted by lamont on Mon, Jun 6, 2011, at 5:44 PM
  • *

    Thanks Lamont. I went back and read his comments again. I also went back and read the meeting minutes from the 9th. From what I can tell once NLCM comes back with the sewer hookup and the parking issue resolved, the council will hear their request again. Since those things are already in the works, it's just a matter of time until it gets approved. Is that about where things sit?

    -- Posted by VicVega on Mon, Jun 6, 2011, at 7:56 PM

  • MY interpretation.....is the point that the council said ok ,then renagde,the church tried to satisfy and then the council said you can fix it if you want but we cant guarantee that will get you approval,.......that is my interpretation.

    HERE IS THE PROBLEM ....... based on the flawed communication the church spent a lot of time and money.YOU WOULD HAVE TO SEE INSIDE TO KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.I dont think they were trying to force a situation I THINK THEY HEARD THE FIRST COMMITMENT.THEN THERE WAS THE LES AFFAIR JUST GO RENT STAR DUST PLAZA. That comment PO a lot of people and gave the impression that the council was conciously misleading and trying to force them into a situation that they wanted them in.This is a communication problem,and a perception problem.You can see that right here on the blog.I think they are prepared to fix the problems but they want a guarantee that they are not going to spend that money and then get told NO.That is a lot of money.I dont think anyone can dispute that nobody has money to throw away.Lastly

    the council knew what they asked for in the conditional use permit if they didnt want them there they should have said No to the initial application,and we would not be here. SO THERE ARE ERROS ON THE PART OF BOTH PARTY'S,AND BOTH PARTY'S COULD FIX IT............THANKS FOR ASKING THAT IS MY TAKE........ WHATS YOUR'S???????????

    -- Posted by lamont on Mon, Jun 6, 2011, at 8:59 PM

  • So, if they are getting their conditional permit, are they still suing for 75K+ dollars?

    -- Posted by CuriousParents on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 11:45 AM
  • *

    Stop whining and go to one of the hundreds of other churchs in the town, they all worship the same person or excuse me "God" anyways right? This is a joke.

    -- Posted by shockwave on Thu, Jun 9, 2011, at 6:27 AM

  • Zombie's right, just as many bars as churches in this town. You can worship in either one, and get the same sad result! What a waste!

    -- Posted by ltngblt on Mon, Jun 13, 2011, at 10:53 AM

  • Wow, there are so many rants on this topic and so much yelling (caps lock).

    My thoughts here:

    Why blame the "shifty 50", local government, or city officials for a building that probably should be condemned anyway? Had the church fully done it's research and homework before the purchase, this all could have been avoided. I've gone through the steps to open a business in Mountain Home and I made sure I had my business license, accrued my city permits, and had all of my legal documentation completed BEFORE signing the lease. That seemed like common sense to me...

    Craziluv, I don't think it's fair to call out the local businesses in a public forum for poor customer service. Word of mouth can incapacitate a small business. Did you speak with a supervisor/owner at any of those locations? I have only had good experiences at all three of those businesses. The Youth Ranch usually only has two or three employees working the front area and if you've noticed, they usually have carts full of "side work" to take care of as well as servicing customers. Please consider the fact that A Little Slice of Heaven and Sew & Sew are manned by one or two people and probably don't have the means to hire a large crew and still be able to pay the bills.

    I love Mountain Home and love to see it grow and prosper. But, the most endearing part of this town is that it is small, quaint, and comfortable. I really hope it DOESN'T turn into a Nampa or Meridian. If it becomes too "city-fied", I'm heading for the hills!

    As an afterthought, had the church considered purchasing the old "Scrubby's" building or the daycare across the street? Lots of parking there and it's close to the base for some of those military personnel. Just a thought.

    -- Posted by campers4 on Thu, Jun 16, 2011, at 10:39 AM
Respond to this story

Posting a comment requires free registration: