Almost 65 and retired. Raised by an East Coast liberal. I am also a child of the sixties.

MARRIAGE IS CIVIL RIGHT ( RITE) AS WELL AS RELIGIOUS SACRAMENT

Posted Sunday, May 13, 2012, at 5:24 AM

Using tradition as justification for denying a basic human right is as antiquated as this style of text.

Selective use of biblical text from Leviticus while ignoring other parts of Leviticus makes about as much sense as using multiple fonts while writing a blog. It may be an eye catcher, but adds no substance. It simply serves as a distraction.

And while this may be catchy, it can grate on one's nerves.

The following link makes many points if one reads it with an open mind. Sadly an open mind is distained by many people. The lack of an open mind is what lead to slavery being tolerated for as long as it was, not to mention the economic benefit, as well as giving a certain group a false sense of superiority over other members of the human specie. This false sense of superiority has lead to many injustices in the past. It was but a short century ago that women gained the right to vote. It was only half a century ago that men and women of different races could legally marry in many states.

If tradition (that's how things have always been) were in fact a valid argument then we would be reciting the ORIGINAL pledge of allegiance, not the one we recite today. You know which version I'm referring to. The one that doesn't mention God.

While this isn't an exact quote, I think it gets the basic point across. The only function of government is to allow us to pursue our happiness. Courtesy of Buckshot. He got it half right. Part of the function of government is protect the rights of all of it's citizens, not the chosen few.

http://news.yahoo.com/marriage-civil-well-religious-sacrament-050009980.html

Comments

View 56 comments

Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. Please note that those who post comments on this website may do so using a screen name, which may or may not reflect a website user's actual name. Readers should be careful not to assign comments to real people who may have names similar to screen names. Refrain from obscenity in your comments, and to keep discussions civil, don't say anything in a way your grandmother would be ashamed to read.

This link also points out the sad state of the human and political condition here in this country.

http://news.yahoo.com/rand-paul-says-didnt-think-obamas-views-could-235037656--a...

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 5:58 AM
Mike, I am sick and tired of the party that is supposed to be about less government thinking it has the moral authority to stick it's nose in where it doesn't belong. Govern, don't dictate peoples personal life.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 8:38 AM
If marriage is so freaking sacred, outlaw DIVORCE!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 8:40 AM
Prayer in schools, Supreme Court

Ten Commandments, Supreme Court

School Lunches, Federal Money, Federal Rules

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 10:00 AM
Just watch a documentary on Netflix called, "For the Bible told me So". The older preacher on there spells out why those who use the Bible to rationalize their fear and bigotry are just being ignorant. If one looks at the historical context of when those books of the Bible were written, one would see that the Fred Phelps have no more a leg to stand on then the KKK.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 12:06 PM
There is no mention of same-sex marriages or partnerships in the Bible, either for or against. Probably because these issues were not even considered in Biblical times.

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 12:28 PM
AA, the organization that saved my life, has way too many members around here that seem to have forgotten the core purpose of the group. I grew weary of being asked how often I went to church, how often I prayed, etc.

I am still sober and have surrounded myself with other alcoholics who feel the same.

WE WILL SURVIVE!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 2:03 PM
Mike, what about everything else in Leviticus? If 18:22 is relevant, then the whole book is. Can't have it both ways.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 5:17 PM
You must not know Mountain Home very well Zook. We have many Gays and Lesbians. Some I have known for at least 20 years. You live in a bubble. If it doesn't hit close to home for you, you are ignorant.

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 8:07 PM
HOW INSULTING......WHO'S NEXT??? weirdo's illegals and muslims....so who decides who is ok??

SURELY THAT IS RESERVED FOR ...... AS a person raised in a christian household I find that comment beyond offensive.SHOULD WE BURN THEM AT THE STACK???? YOUR ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION ZOOK...BUT I DONT THINK YOU HAVE TO WONDER WHY PEOPLE SHY AWAY FROM THE RIGHT.....

-- Posted by lamont on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 8:46 PM
The word, "abomination" at the time when the Bible was written did not mean immoral and therefore worthy of punishment. It meant nontraditional or not part of established ritual. Again, that does not mean that it was a crime punishable by death. It was just something nontraditional and awkward. If you are going to quote the book then know the context for which it was written from.

Furthermore, science is on the verge of proving that homosexuality is the result of random hormone washes of the fetus during the last trimester. Therefore, it is not a choice.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 9:15 PM
Well Zook you seem to be talking a lot about you.

OK so your not PC Correct many other people aren't either. If you want to quote the Bible that's fine, but just remember there are some Christians that look down on you because your living your life in sin according to the Bible.

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 10:36 PM
Humanity has many examples of randomly occurring genetic variants that do not aid in our survival. Dwarfism, risk-loving behavior, being Albino, etc. are just some examples. Homosexuality is just another randomly occurring genetic item. Much the same as being left-handed.

Why would anyone willingly put themselves through the awkwardness and self-loathing that goes along with being homosexual. They know that they can't reproduce and make the best of it. I could not care less if anyone is gay or not, just do not come onto me and all is good.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 11:17 PM
Burn them at the "stack." Was that the hay stack?

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Mon, May 14, 2012, at 9:48 AM
ZOOK....YOU MUST HAVE SOMEONE ELSE IN MIND...I DONT USE THE TERM UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS....there illegal and that is all I have ever said. so climb down with me.....I said the comment was insulting and that is what I meant.Please consider that there are times that people dont say what's on there mind and then sometimes we do.IT is not so much what as how and your feelings are considered at least by ME anyhow.Always have to everybody.SOME HERE I FEEL DONT CONSIDER PEOPLE FEELINGS,BUT THAT IS THERE BUSINESS.You use offensive terminology and when that is done people take it that way wether it was meant that way or not.They are terms that provoke.I dont think that has anything to do with PC,HAS TO DO WITH BEING HUMAN.I know your angry join the club,the world you are comfortable in is not there my friend,and will not return you will learn to live in this one like it or not,or it will destroy you.SETTLE DOWN.....YOU NEED TO CK OUT THE SERINITY PRAYER

.

ZOOK.....Please you can be offended ,You dont like taking on other peoples garbage neither do I just as you dont want to be held accountable for there behavior neither do I.

TWILL..... MY feelings also, keep it to your self and were good.

OM........TYPO.......STAKE.....BUT YOU KNEW THAT

LATTER......

-- Posted by lamont on Mon, May 14, 2012, at 11:00 AM
Zook,

I think that I will stay here in Reno. Houses in California are 30 to 40% higher and the job market is not really all that much better than here. Besides, things are about to really take off here. I can't say what it is but keep your eyes and ears open later this year.

Homosexuality has always existed. It exists in other primates who do not have nearly the intellect as humans. My ad-hoc theory about why it is a more prominent social issue than ever before is this. One, in the past those types would have kept their mouths shut and went along with the social norms. They would have still got with women even though they could not care less about them. Two, those who did not keep quiet were disposed of. In the more primitive past, anything that could not be explained had to be done away with. In today's era of relative tolerance and rampant information, it is bound to be a major topic. It does not help either side to have Fred Phelps and his band of miscreants staining human kind.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Mon, May 14, 2012, at 3:00 PM
I am talking about big things happening in Reno. A certain major employer is going to start operations here. I cant say who it is but it is going to lift Reno out of the funk it has been in.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Mon, May 14, 2012, at 6:41 PM
If certain people want less government intrusion in their life then why the constitutional bans on gay marriage in many states. These do not just sprout up out of thin air. It is government telling the people what to do. Government is not the moral authority.

Furthermore, churches would not have to perform the ceremonies. No one would be forcing it down their throats. Lets just move on past it and start working on issues that affect everybody not just a small minority.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Tue, May 15, 2012, at 12:51 PM
Constitutional bans or any law prohibiting gay marriage on the behalf of Republicans is hypocritical. If they want less government intrusion, they would step aside and let it happen. If it was a matter of taxation, certain people on here would be railing against it. However, because it is a social issue and they think that it has moral value then it gets a free pass. Can't have it both ways. It is only a matter of time before most states are open to it.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Wed, May 16, 2012, at 11:06 AM
Mike, why are you and so many others sticking your nose in, when at the end of the day, you will have no idea what the ultimate judge will have to say about it. What if, just what if your wrong???

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Wed, May 16, 2012, at 6:20 PM
For pity sake don't give the gays any rights after all that might be constitutional....

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Wed, May 16, 2012, at 8:36 PM
Yeah the Demos like all humans, they don't pick and choice and I've heard some of them even like the evil Republicans.

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Wed, May 16, 2012, at 8:58 PM
I really want to hear what the Constitution says about gay marriage. No interpretations, no theories, no inferences. Only point blank, dead-on-the-money, verbatim, perfectly contextual references.

Second, government intrusion is government intrusion no matter how justified or unjustified it is. A hot steaming pile is a hot steaming pile no matter the clever rhetoric one employs. One can't have it in some ways and not others. If one's ideology is going to be based on it, then one needs to stand by 100% and not make exceptions because it does not fit one's subjective world.

California's problem is not gay people. Their budget deficit is due to caving into public sector unions and very relaxed welfare laws. Again, gay people do not factor into that. The pensions owed to large number of state employees is crippling the state. Again, not gay people nor anything connected to them.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Wed, May 16, 2012, at 10:49 PM
twil, as a former resident of California, I can tell you that another part of California's problem is that there hasn't been a bond measure they didn't love.

Mike, what ever happened to "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness"?

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Thu, May 17, 2012, at 6:00 AM
ZOOK....TRYING TO SELL MYTHS IS NOT THE WAY TO GO.....YOU DONT HAVE TO BE HOMOSEXUAL TO HAVE AIDS OR HIV.that scare tactic was debunked a long time ago.You served with homosexuals,they did there job and didnt try to impose there lifstyle on you.THEY ARE HUMAN AND CITIZENS WHO SERVED THERE COUNTRY just like you and I.There are a whole lot of so called straight people who sat on the couch and still do.Service is voluntary,therefore sitting on the couch is by choice.We gave them that choice,both.I have more respect for the homosexual who chose to serve but that is ME.They were willing to defend some people want to tell us how great they are from the couch while others defend.They die with honor the same as you and I,THERE NAMES ARE ON THE WALL WE MAY NEVER KNOW WHO THEY WERE BUT THEY ARE THERE.............DID you know at one time blood was segregated YES even on the battlefield.I wont give the red craoss a dime to this day.

-- Posted by lamont on Thu, May 17, 2012, at 8:57 AM
There's many other diseases you could of caught from a fellow solder besides aides. That's an old fear monger story you keep repeating.

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Thu, May 17, 2012, at 9:07 AM
You guys beat me to the point.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Thu, May 17, 2012, at 10:42 AM
He I think if same sex couples wanna get married and be miserable like the rest of us married couples then why not.

-- Posted by shockwave on Thu, May 17, 2012, at 12:01 PM
Where have I heard that before?

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Thu, May 17, 2012, at 1:02 PM
the ultimate cop out is the "well you have never done this or that". It is just another form of the old, tired game played out in the playground of my package is bigger than yours.

I fail to understand the connection between allowing gay marriage and smokers/drinkers/perverts mooching off the system. I think someone needs to wake up and realize that this is 2012 and not 1960. Those stereotypes may have been true then but they are not now. There are plenty of non-gay and white-bread Americans that abuse the system. Plenty of trailer park types that fit this description but yet they get a free pass.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Thu, May 17, 2012, at 1:04 PM
Zook,

I have also come to the conclusion that you really down at the core base your rants on stereotype, assumption, and opinion. Those issues that you speak of are very valid but are in no way tied to gay marriage. The two are totally separate spheres. I know quite a few people who would prove your ingrained stereotypes 100% wrong. I know that you will cop out and say that a few exceptions do not make the rule. However, I will venture to say that you do not actually KNOW one single gay person.

I predict that you will dodge this or lie. It's ok, most people can not handle being called out on the carpet. Now, to aid your next tirade and keep you on topic, why don't you tell us all about how allowing gay marriage is going to result in an explosion of second hand smoking-related illness, drunk-driving deaths, drug addiction, and another AIDS epidemic. If you can't back this up with fact and not prejudice or stereotype, then own up to it. I don't want to hear about you growing up in San Francisco. That was then and this is now. Don't stir the pot and then complain because it gets too hot.

Divide the nation? What an epic cop-out? If we allowed gay marriage, life would carry on for 99.9999999999999% of most Americans in exactly the same form as it did before.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Fri, May 18, 2012, at 10:19 AM
And like the stupid polls and those that copy and paste.......... Your opinion Zook means nothing !

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Fri, May 18, 2012, at 6:00 PM
Family Guy. lol

-- Posted by shockwave on Fri, May 18, 2012, at 8:23 PM
It won't be your opinion that counts, only the votes.

Flag burning tomorrow in Carl Miller Park starts at Noon.

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Fri, May 18, 2012, at 9:07 PM
Flag burning?

-- Posted by jessiemiller on Fri, May 18, 2012, at 9:10 PM
Its how they dispose of torn, and tattered flags. They burn them. Some are dedicated to family or friends who have passed on. Its put on by American Legion Posts #26 and #101. They used to have a picnic and a camp out at strike Dam. Last year was the first time they did it at the park.

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Fri, May 18, 2012, at 9:21 PM
Mike, next time you want to comment on people who don't assimilate into our country, try reading this.

Do they get a pass??

http://news.yahoo.com/ultra-orthodox-plan-huge-nyc-meeting-net-risks-184930863.h...

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 6:04 AM
I AM GOING TO ASK THIS. ZOOK WERE DID YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION FROM????The reason I ask is there is a tendencie to twist things for the side of some tyranny without facts.I dont care that you hate this man I do care that we paint and accurate picture not one we want to see rather than what is.THE KIND OF ANALOGY'S YOU MAKE ARE VERY DISTORTED.

Think about this......GOV ROMENEY WANTS TO BE PRESIDENT BUT HE DOESNT KNOW HOW TO TALK TO JOE BLOW MIDDLE CLASS WITHOUT TALKING DOWN.So therfore I could make a comparison that say's he is the one WHO is already setting the tone of and emperial presidency and a partial one at best, considering the makeup of his campaign and the people who seem to be at his speeches.SO the question could be who or what is he for other than making money ,and then the question is for who???? BE carefull what you wish for....people try to set the president up as not one of us.GOV ROMENEY IS NOT LIKE ANYONE I KNOW AND I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE IN MANY PLACES'S.....LATTER

-- Posted by lamont on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 9:58 AM
Zook,

I thought better of you. What a cowardly dodge. Supposedly, you are of high character but yet you dodge simple questions. Let's try this again.

"why don't you tell us all about how allowing gay marriage is going to result in an explosion of second hand smoking-related illness, drunk-driving deaths, drug addiction, and another AIDS epidemic. If you can't back this up with fact and not prejudice or stereotype, then own up to it."

Admit that your self-righteous, passionate stance is based on something legit such as logic and reason or admit that your rants are nothing but ignorance and stereotype.

I do not judge anybody without having something to back it up. Try it out sometime.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 10:16 AM
In terms of percentages, we are just about on track with other administrations, except they didn't have to deal with a near depression!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 2:25 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention, over 50% of the debt is owed to US! Default on the foreign held debt and you get an instant reduction in deficit spending of about 250 BILLION!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 2:46 PM
ZOOK ....what does money have to do with martial law and the other things you were talking about.....I know about 16 trillion .......I am sure he added ALL of that to the deficit.

I want to read this hitler stuff

-- Posted by lamont on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 4:19 PM
Pull what??

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 20, 2012, at 6:48 AM
I DONT THINK ROY pulled MR BUCHNANS CUT AND PASTE....I did answer it and 2 hours latter it was not there.That same excerpt cost him dearly.IT may have had some good points but it also was incomplete as far as causality was concerned.In any event that was the secound time that was posted.Probally for the same reason.Points fingers, gives no solution,and takes no responsibility.HIS thoughts and that's fair.HECK I agree with a lot of it,but you cannot put everyone in that box,especially when discrimination is still common place.MAJOR CHANGE DID NOT START HAPPENING UNTIL THE 1980's.ANYHOW it is always a intresting read.HE really doesnt know anything about the black community......Those are my thoughts.

-- Posted by lamont on Sun, May 20, 2012, at 8:18 AM
MHresident, If I pull anything, you will know it!

You are a moron for assuming I did. Yes I called you a name!

Try asking Brenda, or the staff at MHN why it was removed.

People like you who hide behind their screen name and make such stupid accusations represent the worst kind of coward!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 20, 2012, at 8:28 AM
To MHresident, your cut and paste job was pulled because it violated MHN rules about posting copyrighted materials and it violated the copyright laws of the United States. I guess some of you on the board fell it's OK to violate the law.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 20, 2012, at 9:25 AM
Zook,

"and I just told you EARLIER that the queer situation does NOT cause the OTHERS........but that ALL have been a drain on our resources."

Who is this "ALL" that you speak of?

Second, if gay marriage would not cause not cause the others then why do you care? Why do you routinely and predictably respond to posts that are about gay marriage and gay marriage only with your usual tirade about mooching? Again, feel free to show your cowardice.

Gay marriage would have virtually no effect on the daily life of 99.9999999999% of Americans and I think that you know this. There are other, bigger, better issues that affect greater numbers than this ever will.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Sun, May 20, 2012, at 10:03 AM
The Buchanan piece is alive and well on another comment thread to an "OLD" blog of Roy's.

Too many clicks before coffee?

-- Posted by wh67 on Sun, May 20, 2012, at 11:42 AM
Maybe he hadn't recovered from last night.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 20, 2012, at 12:14 PM
I have watched the military channel for years especially the ww2 documentary's.Those parrells could be made of any country on the face of the earth.IF YOU WANT TO MAKE THEM SPECIFIC TO SOMEONE ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS TO LAY IT AT THERE DOOR STEP..The thing about hitler and his regime was his INTENT how he martialed the population ,he used tried and tested methods nothing new just more intensive.WHAT ARE YOU SAYING ABOUT THE RALLY'S FOR OBAMA????? cOULD IT BE THAT THEY HAVE REAL THREATS TO HIS LIFE????Truth be told a major part of our country is surprised he is still alive,especially in the black community it is a subject of discussion all the time.9 trillion is his share????? i THOUGHT IT WAS 6 SO WHICH ONE IS IT??????

You can say what you want ZOOK but ROMENY is not the GUY.....yOU MIGHT LEARN THAT THE HARD WAY.

NO matter he is a republican....I am surprised at you he violates so many of your principals.HIS APPROACH TO GOVERNING will not do anything for the country as a whole and will put us in another war you can bet on it.This is a nation state not a corporation,our resources in people and other things are limited.Money solves the immediate problem not the long term.I will not cry over spilled milk,but you guys didnt reign in BUSH because you THOUGHT he was making us money but you knew he wasnt,but you werent getting hurt.

ROMENY IS NOT GOING TO SEND OUT CKS TO THE POPULATION ONLY TO HIS CORPORATE FRIENDS.The anger you feel towards solyndra is what I feel about what happened in new orleans.dO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY GOT RICH OFF THE DEATH AND DESTRUCTION IN NEW ORLEANS????? SOLYNDRA didnt kill anyone.It was a govenment loan guarantee that went bad....happens all the time.What I have watched is what I predicted .....to be the same as you must be better than.Nothing new there either, anyhow we could go tit for tat not worth IT.BUT he is not the GUY BELIEVE IT......LATTER

-- Posted by lamont on Mon, May 21, 2012, at 8:29 AM
Zook,

On more occasions than I can count, a certain person responds to my posts. This certain person does this on their own free will. No one is forcing him to do so. This certain person also always ASSUMES to know what I think on certain topics. A certain someone also shows a complete lack of respect by always going off topic. If I post something about topic X, I expect the response to be loosely connected to topic X. However, a certain person always has to go off topic and make all these assumptions. I do not assume to know anything about you other than what you write on the blog. Give it a try.

We really are not that far apart on things. You could do yourself a favor by not being so beligerent. If you want to pick a fight, then just say it.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Mon, May 21, 2012, at 12:51 PM
Back to the topic,

As the old guard fade away, the younger voters are going to support gay marriage in greater numbers as time goes on. At the moment, the struggle is on but that is how it goes. One of the reasons that this topic arouses such strong opinions is that it is subjective. It is also one of the last straws of organized religion. As time has gone on, organized religion's influence on daily life has waned. This topic represents one of it's last chances to affect society as a whole. If it loses this battle along with abortion, it will be relegated to the peanut gallery. Their vehement opposition to this idea is akin to a prize fighter coming out for the 12th round throwing its hardest punches.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Tue, May 22, 2012, at 11:46 AM
Good analogy, the religious right is slowly losing it grip on this country. They will continue to control some areas, mostly rural, but that's it. One way or another this whole country will be drug, most likely kicking and screaming, into the 21st century. It's like evolution, adapt or die.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, May 22, 2012, at 11:56 AM
What is somewhat amusing is that there are only about 14 mentions of homosexuality in the Bible. Out of roughly 190,000 words, that constitutes less than .1% of all the text. That tells me that it was a non-issue and that those who wrote really did not care all that much about it. However, in today's world where organized religion is fading into the shadows they continually bring this up. If those saintly individuals who wrote the sacred text did not care all that much, why do they?

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Thu, May 24, 2012, at 3:51 PM
Simple, go back to the late 20's early 30's in Germany. It's called a whipping boy.

Your an interesting character twil. How is Reno now a day's besides incredibly crowded? I lived around there in the late 70's. Sparks, Stead, Gardnerville.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Thu, May 24, 2012, at 7:22 PM
Reno is OK. It took a beating in the last recession and has not really recovered. However, big things are on the horizon. I can not say what they are (out of respect for a colleague that works at the governor's office) but things will be looking up soon. It is not all that crowded at the moment. There was a ton of new development towards Pyramid Lake and out south towards Carson City. Politically, it is an interesting mix of quasi-libertarian and liberals from Sacramento and the Bay.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Fri, May 25, 2012, at 1:36 PM

Respond to this blog

Posting a comment requires free registration:

If you already have an account, follow this link to login
Otherwise, follow this link to register