Almost 65 and retired. Raised by an East Coast liberal. I am also a child of the sixties.

Promote the general Welfare

Posted Saturday, August 27, 2011, at 7:45 PM

These four very simple words strung together have caused much consternation over the last century or more. This phrase is used twice in the Constitution. The first time is in the preamble and that is what I will try to address here. While the founding fathers were very wise, they couldn't possibly foresee the future as it exists today. I do believe that their intent was to produce a document that would guide a young nation. They saw the result of the Puritan experiment, therefore the 1st amendment. Therefore also my opposition to any group of people who would seek to impose on the nation their particular religious views, but I digress. The concept of the social aspect of the general welfare was accepted by the Supreme Court by validating Social Security, our government's first excursion into social welfare. Since then both ends of the political spectrum have tried to achieve their vision of promoting the general welfare and at the end of the day, both sides have been dismal failures. One side has promoted self sufficiency, faith based aid and has systematically tried to eliminate basic safety nets, while the other side has promoted cradle to grave care.

Both sides are wrong and there has to be an answer somewhere in the middle. The concept of community based safety nets were perverted by the greed of some of those who provided the safety net. The concept of government based safety nets has been perverted by the greed of some of those who benefit from the safety nets and have made them a way of life. I'm sure that the founding fathers would have no problem with basic safety nets for the citizens of this country. Food, Shelter and Medical Care. I added Medical care as it has become so expensive and expansive that it completely out of reach for so many.

That being said, I think the founding fathers would have no problems with attaching certain strings on said aid, i.e. where and how it is spent. What sort of giving back to the community should be required for those who can give back with their labor or skills.

I hope everyone noticed I said the CITIZENS of this country. Now before anyone accuses me of being an uncaring ogre because of the children of illegal immigrants would go hungry or lack shelter or medical care because of the sins of their parents, that isn't what I'm proposing. The Medical care part is easy since it is person specific. The question is how to feed and provide shelter to the children without benefiting the parents. It is vexing, and I for one have no reasonable answer. The one answer that has been put forward is to simply deport them all. Children born on U.S. soil are citizens. Until the Supreme Court reverses itself that is the law of the land. So if we deport the parents, what of the children left behind? Like it or not, they are citizens.

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I understand your feelings Mike, but the question still remains, what do we do with the children that are left behind that are citizens, if the parents choose not to take them back home? Also, not all illegals are Mexican. They come from many different countries. If you weren't inferring that all illegals are Mexicans, then I apologize for assuming that is what you meant. Also, the loophole you refer to is part of the constitution.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 3:13 AM
Ever notice or think about how our medical care costs rise the more government is involved in paying for medical care for the less fortunate? And then our taxes go up to pay for those medical costs. So we pay more for our medical care the more government is involved, we pay more taxes the more government is involved to pay for their care. And people wonder how medical costs got so expensive. Government involvement puts us in competition with them.

-- Posted by skeeter on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 5:28 AM
skeeter, medical costs also rise for many other reasons including advancements in science, litigation, corporate greed and longevity. Take Celebrex, a very common drug to treat arthritis. The generic version is available in almost every country except the U.S. The cost in other countries can be as little as $20.00 a month whereas in the U.S. only the brand name is available at a cost of $120.00 to $140.00 a month. Insurance companies are forced to pay this price for those insured, for those with medicaid, the government is forced to pay that price, and for those of us with no insurance, we either pay the price, do without or in my case, break the law by buying from overseas. If you look at other drugs, such as those to treat bi-polar disorder, the cost can be as high as $1200.00 a month for just 1 drug. Any answers to this problem my friend?

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 6:53 AM
skeeter, on a side note. I not only have arthritis, but I also have trigger fingers. The cost of an injection in each finger? $250.00-$300.00 for 5 minutes time and a couple dollars worth of medicine.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 6:56 AM
Mike, this is the loophole you referenced.

"Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

I put it in quotes because it is an exact quote from the 14th amendment,

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 7:08 AM
Mike, you see the concept of this blog is what was intended in the preamble with the four words I titled this blog with. There were no illegal aliens at the time, and if you want to get down right specific about things, we the Europeans were the illegal aliens at the time. We came into someone else's territory without an invite.

And do you really in your heart believe 2 wrongs can make for a right? Search your semper fi heart for the answer.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 7:58 AM
But do 2 wrongs make a right?

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 8:47 AM
FOLKS there are bigger fish to fry than illegals, that is a smoke screen for our problems.How about instituionalized propaganda that perpetuates that myth.Big business sits on 2 trillion dollars and says were not sure you are worth our reinvestment so beg us and we will think about doing something.

But first you have to lower wages ,get rid of benifites and become a third world labor pool then gives us a call and we will talk.

also if you havnt checked on what is going on at the border(southern) you need to.You cant blame this administration for not working hard at shutting the door.I am surprised that some group is not raising the dickens about it because they are going after it......well got grass to cut latter.

-- Posted by lamont on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 8:55 AM
And as far as lining the border, that is of no help what so ever when it comes to those who come here on visa's and over stay them and end up having babies. Can you really see a future with a person of authority being able to walk up to anyone and demanding "Documents please?" Who do we target? How do we prevent abuse?

I wont argue that many do sneak across the border, but your argument seems to ignore the ones I mentioned above. Do we close our borders completely and not allow anyone come to visit or study or do business?

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 8:57 AM
Well said lamont!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 8:58 AM
Mike, I was thinking while I was out mowing the lawn, WE did get a freebe as you call it. It was during WW2. Remember the internment camps? The place where U.S. citizens were imprisoned because of where their ancestors came from. Do you want me to use the terms of the day and hope Brenda doesn't kill this comment? Where we collectively as a nation tossed the constitution in the garbage can. There is your FREEBE.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 9:45 AM
Mike, I don't bring things up just to antagonize you. I hope you know that. It's just that I was a very good student and independent reader during high school. I took one thing with me from all that work, and that was to never forget the right things, the wrong things and all the things in the middle that have happened in our great country.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 9:52 AM
Roy, I understand there are more factors than what I mentioned, however the stealing of our money to pay for someone else to get medical attention is a sore subject with me. I pay over 5000 dollars a year for health care insurance and there are two of us. It just seems a little expensive and government involvement has led to a lot of expensive costs for an average working guy. The lady down the street with 6 kids pays nothing. And longevity has it's benefits. Is anyone in this administration for tort reform when they are lawyers bought and paid for by lawyers and unions? Law suits and liability insurance may be the second largest cost of health insurance next to fraud.

-- Posted by skeeter on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 10:57 AM
Mike, funny you should bring up the car accident scenario as my daughter, driving an Acura on Federal Way, was hit by a person driving an old full sized Blazer while she was stopped at a red light. He never slowed down before he hit her and he was going about 45. My daughter was taken by ambulance to the hospital and I was called to see what I wanted to do with the car. I had it towed to a storage place. The car was paid for and my daughter had liability insurance only. The dirt bag who hit her showed false insurance papers to the police, as the insurance on the Blazer had expired. I got a PI and found where he worked and had to pay the police to serve him and his employer with garnishment papers. He paid one time and left the country. Car was ruined and my daughter ended up with medical bills, ambulance bills, storage bills and no car. Just doesn't seem fair and that was the second time it happened to her. First time was a hit and run with 2000 dollars worth of damage. We helped her pay off all bills as any family would if they can.

-- Posted by skeeter on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 11:12 AM
skeeter, 2 things. 1st I too was involved in an accident involving an illegal. At least I had full coverage as the car wasn't paid for. 2nd You will never see tort reform from congress as long as we keep electing lawyers to congress. The ABA is one of the strongest lobbying groups in D.C. and lawyers will always look out for their own. And don't forget insurance companies are all about profit. Rather than help provide for the general welfare, they are focused on maximum profit and the rate payers can go to you know where. The whole system is so fouled up I really don't know what the answer is short of establishing some type of a non-profit insurance plan with rates based on ability to pay. There has to be a solution somewhere based on tort reform and a insurance plan like I proposed that would cover the necessities. Elective procedures should be at the full expense of the person receiving them. As far as prescription meds, especially for chronic conditions all I can say is that the drug companies are getting away with legalized rape. I am not against a reasonable ROI, but give me a break. Call me what ever name you wish to, but I do firmly believe that our health care system has lost all sight of the common good in favor of the almighty dollar because there is NO competition what so ever. If a company comes up with a drug that costs 2 dollars for ingredients and labor and is needed for the treatment of a chronic illness, they can and will charge as much as 40 dollars for it.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 11:58 AM
"I haven't turned on the news yet this morning, but however nuch hurricane damage is done on the east coast, I predict it will be like Katrina, 9/11 or any OTHER disaster that has ever happened here.

It will be up to US to help ourselves. You won't see cargo planes from other countries, loaded with food, medical supplies or anything else.

For the most part-----disaster relief, infrastructure assistance, food, monetary help, and every other conceivable means of foreign aid, has always been a ONE-WAY STREET......coming FROM us....but never TO us."

Bazookaman, After Katrina over 90 countries offered aid to the U.S. totalling $854 Million of which we only used 5%. Additionally, a large portion of the $854 million in aid offered went uncollected, including over $400 million in oil (almost 50%). As a matter of fact, the U.S. REQUESTED and received aid from the European Commission.

After 9/11 numerous countries, organizations and private citezens provided different forms of aid. The Belgians provided specialized search and rescue dog teams. The Canadians tightened security along the border and arranged for hundreds of grounded airplanes to land at Canadian airports. Private citezens from around the world donated Millions through the Red Cross

After the BP Oil spill, 28 countries offered aid with the cleanup, we only accepted aid from 5.

-- Posted by Amuzeme on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM
KINDA LIKE US VIETNAM VETS.....OUR PRIDE IS KILLING US !!!!!!!!!!!

THANKS ...ROY ...THANKS SKEETER..... EXCELLENT POINTS.

LETS remember that scenario is NOT exsclusive to hispanics

On the medical side.....question what do we do about the doctor who removes the wrong arm?????? and yes it happens more than we want to talk about.$5,000.00 Skeeter you know and i know that you should not be paying that.If you ck into how hospitals are paid you will find that the insurance co are running a scam about illegals.Just go ck and come back and tell us what you find about payment.I bet you will be schocked. Bear in mind we dont do anything that will not make a profit,keep that in the back of your mind ....PLEASE........AMUZEME...GREAT 111111 THANKYOU

-- Posted by lamont on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 1:51 PM
lamont, I agree there is gross negligence, but far more malpractice lawsuits are filed for frivolous reasons. The cost to defend them or settle them is astounding. The scar was larger than I expected. The outcome wasn't what I expected. You know what I mean. Just watch the ads on T.V. As I've said before, not a dime of public money for illegals, adult or child.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 2:10 PM
I didn't say it was a Hispanic who hit my daughter. If the doctor removes the wrong arm the doctor should pay out the nose. Reminds me of the story from Nebraska of the doctor who cut off the wrong leg and the correct leg had cancer and had to be removed too. Friends told him to sue but he said he couldn't as he didn't have a leg to stand on.

-- Posted by skeeter on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 2:14 PM
To everyone, I find it interesting that no one has responded to my comment to Mike at 9:45 in response to his comment at 7:45 regarding freebes.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 2:14 PM
NO ARGUMENT THERE ......just A QUESTION?????? I ALWAYS SAY BEFORE YOU HAVE THEM DO ANYTHING REMEBER WHAT THERE LICENSE SAY'S..........."TO PRACTICE".....TO ME THAT MEANS THEY DONT KNOW EVERYTHING and to exspect otherwise is not in your own best intrest.....but that's me

-- Posted by lamont on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 2:16 PM
Right on. Practice Law, Practice Medicine, anything with Practice before it deserves more than one look.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 2:28 PM
Roy, I assume you are speaking of the Japanese? Lamont talked of that subject a few months ago. As someone who had family members thrown in the air and caught on the end of a bayonet, who were put in cells at water's edge and drown when the tide came in, who were shot in the head on the Bataan death march, and were starved by the Japanese in their own country I don't have much to say about it. There is always more to a story in most cases.

-- Posted by skeeter on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 2:29 PM
skeeter, Japanese and Germans both. People whose parents and grandparents were born in this country were put into internment camps (prisons) and had all of their belongs including land confiscated. People whose only crime was to have been of a certain ancestry. When someone suggests turning a blind eye to violating the constitutional rights of anybody, I want everybody to remember that THEY could be the next group targeted.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 2:51 PM
SKEETER....... i can respect your no comment.....

but i must say the japenese that were interned were AMERICAN CITIZENS...... ALTHOUGH deprived of there rights went on to voluntarily wear the uniform and becaome one of the most decorated units in american history.There ethinicity should have had nothing to do with what they indured.LETS hope that kind of behavior is history.SKEETER i did not say that you said they were hispanic......you did say he left the country...I assumed he was hispanic....my bad

-- Posted by lamont on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 3:14 PM
Lamont, I respect your answer. My relatives were in their home country and were murdered in the most cruel way. Only this year I listened to another story of an old man who watched as one of our POW relatives was bayonetted to death because he couldn't walk fast enough. I've been through the internment camp by Eden and talked to the Japanese who were visiting.

-- Posted by skeeter on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 4:52 PM
skeeter, My Mother being an active duty veteran of the Navy during WW2 and losing her only brother on the European front still has very strong feelings about both Japanese and Germans. She made sure while I was growing up to instill in me certain values regarding bigotry, although I must admit it did test her limits when I brought home my best friend in grade school who was Japanese. First generation. God bless her for giving me the values I have today.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 5:08 PM
JYD, As I said in my last blog, this place is a sort of therapy for me. If I make even a small dent, then it's worth the effort. Plus if you can't tell, I can be just as hard headed as Mike. He and I may disagree, but at least he is respectful of my positions.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 5:14 PM
Fair enough.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 5:56 PM
I would say those Marines were weak if they couldn't just say NO lol !

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 7:33 PM
How did this become a DADT blog or a debate about the morals of the Corps? As far as homer, he just upset with me, I'm sure he will get over it.

Anyone who remembers "I Swore I Wouldn't Go There" understands.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 9:34 PM
SKEETER...... did you know we have death march survivors here???????? I KNOW ONE FOR SURE HE WAS MY BOSS WHEN I FIRST GOT HERE IN 72.YES he is still alive...the last time i saw him he told me he was 96 what a great person.He will always have a place in my heart.

Zook .....did you know chief BELL /....HE WAS TOO......just a tid bit just thought of it.

-- Posted by lamont on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 3:33 PM
Lamont: I did know a Bataan Death March survivor and POW in Mtn Home but he died the last day of 2009. He was a hero in my eyes and will always be remembered. I have several things of his that I bought and will pass on to one of my sons and make sure they know of how he survived. I also know his son who lives in Calif., but not well. He told me that he and his dad had been on the History channel and it was mostly about the Hell Ships that took him from the Philippines to Japan. I have rode my bike the route of the march and have rode a bus on the route several times. After retirement he served with the Red Cross in Viet Nam for two years in 67 and 68. Lots of stories have died with him and are lost. The relative of ours on the march with him did not make it all the way and was bayoneted along the side of the road. The man I'm talking about in this post lived over east of the library but I don't want to use his name, is it the same one?

-- Posted by skeeter on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 5:19 PM
Roy: I know my post was off subject but wanted to respond to Lamont.

-- Posted by skeeter on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 5:21 PM
Lamont, I knew Chief Bell what a Chief is was, he was complete control of the flight line with the F-111F and was very good at it. I remember when we were TDY down to Cannon while they worked on the runway here. We had a few buses assigned to us to move the troops around the base and one evening he took a bus and was going to town which he did. He was stopped at the gate going out the SP asked where are you going with this bus and his answer was I am taking my people to town and we going to party and on he went. I don't think he even had a license to drive the bus but didn't stop him nor did anyone else try LOL.

-- Posted by Eagle_eye on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 5:35 PM
NO SKEETER he lives in hammet and if you knew CHIEF BELL you KNOW THIS ONE. SOME DAY WE WILL MEET I WILL TELL YOU WHO IT IS.....THOSE GUYS WERE UNTOUCHABLE......CMH RECIEPEINTS ARE THE SAME.

-- Posted by lamont on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 5:57 PM
I AM SORRY EAGLE EYE.....MY LAST POST TO SKEETER SHOULD HAVE BEEN TO YOU.

-- Posted by lamont on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 7:07 PM
Lamont: guess I a bit confused now, all I know you asked skeeter if he knew Chief Bell and I had answered I did with the bus story.

-- Posted by Eagle_eye on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 8:24 PM
Now I really messed it up you asked Mike about Bell lol

-- Posted by Eagle_eye on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 8:30 PM
Bell was a short skinny Chief that was heck on wheels and didn't seem to answer to anyone but himself. I remember he had a number of waivers for being over 30 years active duty and just kept going.

-- Posted by Eagle_eye on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 8:34 PM
I would think I should know Chief Bell but I can't remember him at all. When was he here? I assume he was a 431? Two POW's in one little area of Idaho. One never knows do one?

-- Posted by skeeter on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 6:47 AM
I dont know were my post went but here we go again

Bell was here when i got here in 1972...yes he was a 431,and I THINK HE WAS CHIEF ENLISTED AT THE DCM,I DONT KNOW IF HE IS STILL ALIVE HE HUNG IT UP ABOUT 73-74.

The other survivor is alive and well kicking in hammet last time i talked to him he said he was 96 also 431...dont want to call his name on the blog.....Yes it is a small world

We also have a guy here from Goodman Field.history walks our streets most here dont even know it..........have a great day

-- Posted by lamont on Thu, Sep 1, 2011, at 12:01 PM
I'm not aware of the person from Goodman Field but I think I remember you mentioning it in a prior post to Mike and I looked up Goodman Field. He must be up in years too. I have met and talked to Bud Day, a long time ago, and most of that was about torture while he was a POW. I think he flew everything from F-84's to F-15's. He was John McCain's POW commander.I've read since that he is the most decorated living military vet and maybe top two or three in history. He served in the Marines, Navy and AF. He told me as a POW if they want info they will get it one way or the other. He's written two books on his ordeal. I still can't place Chief Bell and I was here in those years. Isn't old age great?

-- Posted by skeeter on Thu, Sep 1, 2011, at 3:28 PM

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